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3. NSW Commissary Palmer John-13947 (PalmerJohn , Progenitor ) was born on 17 Jun 1760 in Portsmouth. He died on 27 Sep 1833 in Waddon,Parramatta,NSW.
Item by Margaret Steven on http://about.nsw.gov.au/colections/doc/john-palmer/ His own wikipedia page. He is a captain's servant by age 9. His own ADB entry online. Item of 23 March 2002: A new book is coming out on Palmer and Co. of India, operating before and after 1800: For those with an interest in the trading house of Palmer & Company (a PDF file): http://www.edgehill.ac.uk/newsevents/edgeways/archive/issue4/pdf/prince.pdf -
IGI Internet. Does he also have a brother named John? See A. C. Staples' article on William Prinsep employed by this man's father. See p. 352 of K. N. Chaudhuri on cessation of EICo. See his own ADB entry. >> those notes are for his father. How does John meet his wife Stillwell, since his father has links to the Lees of New York, through them? Palmer and Co. based at Calcutta from 1781, see S. D. Chapman on British-based investment groups citing J. W. Maclellan, Banking in India and China, a sketch., Bankers' Magazine, LV, 1893., p. 52. Cf., A. Tripathi, Trade and Finance in the Bengal Presidency, 1793-1833. Calcutta. 1956. Palmer led quite a princely life, p. 299 of Singh, Palmer had been predicted to fall by 1829. p. 301, when the indigo charade fell by 1834 in Bengal, and India, bankruptcies became common, many European families became destitute, it ruined one half of British society in Bengal, the fear lingered for another 25 years, Cf., W. H. Carey, The Good Old Days of the Honourable John Company. In 1838 there were about 60 European agency houses in Calcutta; by then, India had telegraph lines, shipbuilding, steam navigation, breweries, tanneries, coalmining. By 1822, Singh, p. 228, Palmers "the indigo king of Bengal", and later many loans to Palmers on account of indigo. House of Palmer failed in 1830 over indigo, p. 241, the greatest of the agency houses, and other houses in great want of commerical credit, maybe 500,000 native families dependent on indigo work. Singh, p. 185, about 1805 the govt of Ceylon apptd Trail Palmer and Co. their agents in India, deals to 1812, etc. Singh, p. 160, by 1813, due to bad NSW weather, food wanted from Caclutta, so Macquarie wrote also allowing the shipper to being 10,000 gallons of Bengal rum, with desire to offer the deal first to Palmer and Co, so six agency houses were invited to tender, Palmer and Co. Hogue and Co and J. Scott and Co. tendered, Hogue and Davidson were the lowest, using ship Betsy. some sugar and rum per ship Cochin of 160 tons. in 1814, Palmer and Co informed the Bengal govt they had been asked to ship more food to NSW. Singh p. 161, on 7 Feb., 1814, sec of NSW govt John Thomas Campbell wanted more wheat shipped to NSW, plus 2000 gals rum as inducement, agency houses asked to tender, Messrs. Johannes Sarkies and Co. got the deal, using a Lascar-crewed ship intended to later go to n-w America for furs, but that ship was lost on the Hugli, but that house sent a further shipment. In 1815, similar, and Palmers got the deal. In 1814, restriction on import of spirits to NSW were lifted and this caused interest in Bengal, eg Messrs Scott and Co had distilleries, but that deal went to Hogue Davidson and Co. at this point, Calcutta uses NSW coal. Singh, p. 132, Govt permitted Capt Light to take Penang in 1786, (see Frost, Convicts and Empire pp. 143-148) and Cornwallis William qv, Penang had produce fit for the China market, at first, Penang Singh, p. 133 was used as a penal settlement, for Bengal convicts, (also sent to Bencoolen) but in 1797 the gov-genl assured the superintendent of the settlement he would be regularly supplied with convicts according to necessity. Food from Bengal had to be taken to Penang, using country ships eg Fairlie, Gilmore and Co., Govt of Penang had appted Messrs Palmer and Co. as their Calcutta agents, in 1815, Fairlie Fergusson and Co. got the shipping of food to Penang. Singh p. 119, in 1811 Britain took Java and Palmer ships were intended to sends ships to there to take captured [Dutch] property, but trade a bit low at the time for such as coffee, spices, sugar, camphor, etc. Later Hogue and Davidson moved in on Java goods. VIP See Prinsep, qv, Singh p. 104, about 1799 Palmer tangled with a firm, Palmer and Barber, 1805, the EICo finances in very sad state, hardly enough for govt purposes in India. Singh p. 49-50 re Indo-Phillippines trade, another source of specie for Canton treasury, deal with Spanish supercargoes, EICo supercargoes might borrow at high interest from Spanish for purchase of their investment in China. In return, Spanish wanted Bills on Bengal. and it was thought, perhaps this might be a way to dispense with the need for bullion from London? House also tried singh p. 33 the Calcutta Journal, editorship one time offered to Sir James Silk Buckingham, who liked a free press and conflicted with the gov-genl. Singh, p. 32, this house began the Calcutta bank which failed in 1829, bringing the house down with it. House is agents for Canton Insurance Co. He is third son of his father's first marriage. See Greenberg, British Trade and Opening of China. His father was military secretary to Warren Hastings and resident at courts such as Oudh and Hyderabad. S. B. Singh, pp. 15ff re genealogy, and this man's two wives. S. B. Singh, p. 12, Palmer and Co linked with London house of Palmer-McKillop and Co, Mr John Palmer came to India in the 1780s and had a firm with Mr Barber, and later on joined Cockerell Trail and Co, by 1810 was Palmer and Co., both Trail and Cockerell kept much funds with Palmer and Co. See SB Singh, p. 9. He becomes brother-in-law of Robert Campbell, see Hainsworth, Builders, pp. 86ff. See Gillen, Founders, p. 547. He is possibly fix backcheck an originating member of Ag Soc NSW in 1822. Mowle's genealogy, According to Colin C of Sefton of 7-5-1994 he is ex-HM Sirius, first Commissary General of NSW, arrived NSW 1798. See Hilda Burr writing on The Davis family from early Australia. A further shipment. In 1815, similar, and Palmers got the deal. In 1814, restriction on import of spirits to NSW were lifted and this caused interest in Bengal, eg Messrs Scott and Co had distilleries, but that deal went to Hogue Davidson and Co. at this point, Calcutta uses NSW coal. Singh, p. 132, Govt permitted Capt Light to take Penang in 1786, (see Frost, Convicts and Empire pp. 143-148) and Cornwallis William qv, Penang had produce fit for the China market, at first, Singh, p. 133 was used as a penal settlement, for Bengal convicts, (also sent to Bencoolen) but in 1797 the gov-genl assured the superintendent of the settlement he would be regularly supplied with convicts according to necessity. Food from Bengal had to be taken to Penang, using country ships eg Fairlie, Gilmore and Co, Govt of Penang had appted Messrs Palmer and Co as their Calcutta agents, in 1815, Fairlie Fergusson and Co got the shipping of food to Penang. Singh p. 119, in 1811 Britain took Java and Palmer ships were intended to sends ships to there to take captured [Dutch] property, but trade a bit low at the time for such as coffee, spices, sugar, camphor, etc. Later Hogue and Davidson moved in on Java goods. VIP See Prinsep, qv, Singh p. 104, about 1799 Palmer tangled with a firm, Palmer and Barber, 1805, the EICo finances in very sad state, hardly enough for govt purposes in India. Singh p. 49-50 re Indo-Phillippines trade, another source of specie for Canton treasury, deal with Spanish supercargoes, EICo supercargoes might borrow at high interest from Spanish for purchase of their investment in China. In return, Spanish wanted Bills on Bengal. and it was thought, perhaps this might be a way to dispense with the need for bullion from London? House also tried Singh p. 33 the Calcutta Journal, Singh, p. 32, this house began the Calcutta bank which failed in 1829, bringing the house down with it. House is agents for Canton Insurance Co. Updates per emailer Lefayre Palmer of December 2007, who says this John is son of John Palmer Snr a shipwright at Portsmouth and his wife Mary Taylor. He has an uncle Thomas a purser and a cousin also a purser Thomas Martin Palmer, both of Hambledon Hampshire
John married Loyalist family Stillwell Susan Mary-79384 daughter of Dr American Loyalist Stillwell Daniel-136879 and Walton Adriana Ariantje-71657 in 1783. Susan was born in 1761. She died in Sep 1832.
ux49 for more. She is of New York, says one website. Daughter of? Stillwell is not useful on net search so far. Not exactly in IGI Internet but maybe? There are no Stillwells/Stilwells listed in Stella Hardy. Per phone call to Colin Campbell of Sefton, Sydney, 7-5-1994. IGI Internet of 23-8-99 we find some Susan Stillwells of Dorking, Surrey, Eng., or Richmond New York, one born 1 Dec 1763 at Staten Island Richmond, New York to Daniel Stillwell and Ariantje (sic) [who might be Negress? or Indian], film 178004 page no 860 and ref no 28455. Some Susan/nah Stillwell as early as 1721 is daughter to Nicholas Stillwell and Mary Stillwell. Note that naval agent for Gov King, James Sykes qv is supposed to be an uncle of one Thomas Stillwell not otherwise well explained. Updates per emailer Lefayre Palmer of December 2007. www.cousinconnect.com genforum item. - See if work is available from Dr John Edwin Stillwell who collected much Stillwell genealogy.
John and Susan had the following children:
+ 8 M i JP, AACo figure, Ag Soc NSW Palmer George Thomas-13949 + 9 F ii Palmer Sophia Susanna Close-11028 10 M iii Palmer Edwin Campbell-14609 was born in 1802.
Is he an attorney re W. C. Wentworth's NZ land grab of 1840, see E. J, Tapp's book (?). See an Edwin
Palmer, Rev, Archdeacon of Oxford, circa 1867 married, in Burke's P&B for Riddell of Riddell.11 M iv Palmer John-14608 was born in 1797. He died in 1839.
He may not be (probably?) the J. H. Palmer on 1824 AACo lists, see Lecouteur lists.
6. Palmer Sophia-15879 (PalmerJohn , Progenitor ) was born in 1778. She died on 5 May 1833 in George St,Sydney. She was buried in Australia.
Mowle's Genealogy. See Hilda Burr on the Davis family from early Australia.
Sophia married AACo investor, Merchant of The Wharf, Sydney Campbell Robert-15878 son of Signet writer of Kilmarnock Campbell John-23377 and Paterson Agnes-23378 on 17 Sep 1801 in Sydney,NSW. Robert was born on 28 Apr 1769 in Greenock,Scotland. He died on 15 Apr 1846 in Duntroon,NSW. He was buried in NSW.
Contractor. Code-Aust. Code-red. James Donohoe says he is cousin of Olivia Gascoigne qv who married to convict Nathaniel Lucas qv. See Richards' essay in R. A. Cage's book, p. 117, RC ... "It was Campbell's achievement first, to introduce Australia into the network of Asian trade, and second, to challenge the trading monopoly of the East India Company and its officers." His career embraced the collection of taxes, banking, politics, wealthy pastoralist, later philanthropy. Much had been achieved by 1815 when Sydney was declared a free port. Campbell had accepted government contracts to import livestock from India. Pemberton, London Connection, p. 347. Also, Roy H. Goddard on Milson, p. 102. On his son Robert Jnr see Broeze on Brooks. On his wife Sophia Palmer see Nicholas Tarling's work on Palmer of India. Mowle's Genealogy. R. F. Holder, Bank of New South Wales: A History. Sydney, 1970. On titled Campbells in Australia, see Prentis, p. 98. Lady Barlow affair, arising from 1805, see Dakin, Whalemen Adventurers, pp. 50ff. See Abbott and Nairn, p. 292 on Lady Barlow affair. See Hainsworth, Builders, p. 98, pp. 148ff. T. G. Parsons, 'Governor Macquarie and the economic crisis in New South Wales 1810-1815', New Zealand Journal of History, Vol. 2, October 1968. Malcolm D. Prentis, The Scots in Australia: A Study of New South Wales, Victoria and Queensland, 1788-1900. Sydney University Press, 1983., pp. 111ff. See Tarling on John Palmer "merchant prince". See notes for William Jardine qv. See Moyle's genealogy of Australia. See Hilda Burr writing on the Davis family of early Australia. Might it be that his mother, Paterson, is a link to the family of poet Banjo Paterson, has anyone ever asked?
Robert and Sophia had the following children:
+ 12 M i Of Duntroon Campbell George-15877 13 M ii Hon, Unm, MLA Campbell John-8075 was born on 25 Jul 1802. He died on 22 Jan 1886 in Clunes,Stanmore,Sydney.
Mowle's Genealogy. of Campbell's Wharf, Sydney. He is son1.+ 14 M iii Sydney MLA, merchant, NSW Col Treasurer Campbell Robert Junior-5911 15 M iv Barrister Campbell Charles-6242 was born on 20 Sep 1810 in at sea. He died on 17 Aug 1888 in Inverness, Scotland.
Died at Laggan Lodge, Dores, Inverness. Scotland. Code-red maybe. He has five children. He is son3. Mowle's Genealogy, p. 80. See Prentis, Scots in Aust, p. 84.Charles married Palmer Catherine Irena-121789 daughter of JP, AACo figure, Ag Soc NSW Palmer George Thomas-13949 and Pemberton Catherine Irene-56506 on 22 Jun 1837. Catherine died on 28 Apr 1863.
Mowle's Genealogy.16 F v Campbell Sophia Ives-8022 was born in 1812.
Per phone conversation with Colin Campbell of Sefton, Sydney on 7-5-1994.17 F vi Campbell Sarah-311938. + 18 M vii Campbell Frederick-311939
7. Palmer Mary Anne-57562 (PalmerJohn , Progenitor ).
Her husband's name from http seems to be Henry Hobhouse not Holthouse.
Mary married Holthouse Hobhouse Henry William-57561 son of Sir Bart1 Hobhouse Benjamin-25010 and wife1 Cam Charlotte-239994.
Is he related to John Cam Hobhouse? He became partner on Palmer and Co in 1814, then took leave to England 1816-1820, saying he was ill. Update, from http, his name is Hobhouse not Holthouse. See A. C. Staples' article on William Prinsep's Memoirs, qv, giving surname Holthouse.
Henry and Mary had the following children:
19 M i Living Living married Living daughter of Living and Living.
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