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18. Dunbar Alexander-122508 (John , Robert , Robert , Progenitor ) was born in 1753.
Update on 13-11-2008 from Glynnis Paton of NZ.
Alexander married Cook Jean Jane-414083 daughter of Cook Progenitor-414084 and CNotknown Miss-414085. Jean was born in 1766.
Update on 13-11-2008 from Glynnis Paton of NZ.
Alexander and Jean had the following children:
+ 34 M i Dunbar John-414086 was born in 1798.
27. Founder Dunbar Duncan I-10380 (John , Robert , Robert , Progenitor ) was born on 14 May 1764 in Moray,Scotland. He was christened in ,Of Sea Park,,ring one. He died on 2 Nov 1825 in Circa.
He has six drs and two sons. He has cousins Robert Garden and Alexander Bowie. His executors are John Masson of Lime St and Richard Roy of Liverpool St, London, and his own son Duncan Dunbar II. He is son 7, child10, and goes to Jamaica to make his fortune. He remains close friends with Jamaica planter Robert Milligan qv. The family comes from Forres. http says he lived at Poplar at Canton Place and had warehouses along Narrow Street. He built his ships at Calcutta. Does not seem to be in Internet IGI. See Burke's P&B for Dunbar of Northfield, and for Duff-Sutherland-Dunbar, lines which contain re Northfield a dr of Wm Charles Wentworth of Sydney. He or his son have agents in Sydney being Smith, Campbell and Co., which is James Norton Smith and Alexander Campbell (qv, 1822-1889/91) see article by Lyons in Business Archives Council of Australia, Vol. 1, May 1956. He is founder of Duncan Dunbar and Co. He is a brewer, skipper. See Stephanie Jones on Inchcape Group, p. 25 on origins of Gellatly, Hankey. Rear-Admiral Dunbar-Nasmith says his obituary describes him as a shipowner but there is no evidence he actually owned ships. A London directory for 1826-1827 lists, Duncan Dunbar and Son, Wine and Spirit merchant, Fore Street, Limehouse. An 1826 directory lists, Duncan Dunbar, Beer merchant, 21 Fore Street, Limehouse. On Fore Street was Dunbar Wharf.
Duncan married Bailey Phoebe-10381 daughter of Of Lymington Bailey John Of Lymington-146689 and Fry Anne-120389 in 1807. Phoebe was born in 1775. She died in 1853 in Howrah House, Poplar.
thepeerage.com.
Duncan and Phoebe had the following children:
35 M i Convict contractor, shipowner, brewer Dunbar Duncan II-10382 was born in 1804/1805 in Limehouse,London, Of Sea Park. He died on 6 Mar 1862 in Circa.
In his Will, he left ... "I leave the sum of £1000 to my old friend James Brands Allan M.D. I leave
the sum of £500 to each of my Godsons. Duncan Dunbar Garden. Duncan Dunbar Shand.
Andrew Adams Hoyes. Robert Sutherland. Dunbar Campbell of Sydney. James Dunbar
Smith. S William Cosier Son of my friend William Cosier. I leave & bequeath
the sum of One thousand pounds to Samuel Gladstone of Sea Cottage Blackwall
free of duty."
He has friends, W. O. Young of Porchester Terrace (who has children Elizabeth and Lancelot D.), Charles Walton, and Robert Dunbar Garden. He has a niece, Justina Shores who has children. He has a cousin James Hoyes (who has sister Janet) farmer of Lochinver near Elgin, a cousin Matilda Yule and another cousin, Phoebe Anne Sutherland. He has a cousin Margaret Tweeddale who has drs Georgina and Jeanine and son William Alexander Tweeddale. He has a sister, Helen who married Abbot (?) who has son, John Samuel Abbot.
From a http on Poplar history - Duncan Dunbar lives at Canton Place and had warehouses on Narrow Street - he built his ships at Calcutta. Some names of his captains are: Henry Neatby, Alexr Mollison, Thomas Spedding, and one Freeman.
From: <brinds@xtra.co.nz <mailto:brinds@xtra.co.nz>> To: <INDIA-L@rootsweb.com <mailto:INDIA-L@rootsweb.com>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 6:47 AM Subject: Re: [India-L] The ship 'Hougomont'. Steve, An extract from "The Blackwall Frigates" by Basil Lubbock, pub. James Brown & Son, 1924 :- "APPENDIX 1 - The Blackwall Frigates. Date Built: 1852. Name of Ship: "Hougomont" > Tons: 875 Builders: Moulmein (this would be Burma) > Owners: Dunbar." "Duncan Dunbar. The only other owner of frigate-built passenger ships of any note was the famous Duncan Dunbar, who died in 1862 leaving a fortune of a million and a half. His ships, however, were not built in London. A number of them wre built at his own yard in Moulmein, and except for two or three of the later ones, the rest came from Sunderland. Duncan Dunbar was a great believer in India-built ships, and the vessels he built at Brema, Moulmein, were noted for their stoutness. They were all built from teak, cut from the forests that lined the river and surrounded the yard, his famous son (of the same name), on taking over the business, very soon made his name familiar both in the Indian and Australian trades...." email from: brinds. Duncan Dunbar is a first cousin of wife of Robert Milligan. See Burke's P&B for Dunbar of Northfield. See note for this man's father re Sydey agents Alexander Campbell qv and James Norton Smith qv. It is his shipping manager Edward Gellatly qv who founds Gellatly, Hankey and Sewell. which Message is get on inter-library loan, George Blake on Gellatly's, 1862-1962, London, 1962. See Stephanie Jones on Inchcape Group, p. 25, Gellatly, Hankey and Sewell established in May 1862 developed from Duncan Dunbar's wine and beer-shipping business which operated from Limehouse in late C18th. Selling his brewery, which specialised in India Pale Ale for export, Dunbar's son ventured into shipbroking and coaling, owning a large no of sailing vessels, had shipyards at Moulmein in Burma and Calcutta, he died with a fortune of over £1 million in 1862. The business was taken over by his shipping manager and an associate. Dunbar in F. M. L. Thompson on life after death, p. 44 left his fortune in 1862 to three sisters and a great nephew. Broeze in British Intercontinental, p. 201, Dunbar had complete shipping independence. In 1848 he had 24 ships totalling about 15,000 tons, chiefly engaged east of Cape of Good Hope, enough to render him Chairman of the General Shipowners Society of London. He was also a merchant to Rio De Janeiro and all parts east of Cape, but mainly to NSW. He was equally in shipping and mercantile, the commercial directories of London of the 1840s mention only D. Dunbar and Co (or, Son) as brewers, wine and spirit merchants. Dunbar's ale was imported to NSW so see any research on drinking/brewing in NSW. Dunbar used services to brokers to load his ships and even brought out the hops used by Sydney brewers, R. & E. Tooth. Dunbar specialized in trade to Aust. In the late 1840s Dunbar Broeze intercontinental had many ships in migrant trade to Adelaide. As Broeze in Brit Intercont suggests p. 198 that Dunbar with Thomas Ward, Joseph Somes and Chapman Bros specialized in govt charters to Aust. In 1843 a D. Dunbar was member of Blackeath Golf Club; and in 1844, a Mr Buckle. See Welsby, Early Moreton Bay, p. 69, pp. 73ff re a Mr Duncan and wreck of brig Courier in Jan 21, 1854; the agents for the Phoebe Dunbar were Messrs J. and G. Harris who were probably of Brisbane, the Brisbane agent for Lloyd's was Mr R. J. Coley. J. and G. Harris had loaded the ship "Young Australia" Capt Cooper (see Welsby, Early Moreton Bay, pp. 76ff. for London but she wrecked 31 May, 1872, on the north point of Moreton Island. Mr Layton was an agent in 1872 for G. & J. Harris, had about 800 bales wool aboard and 600 bales cotton. Messrs Armour and Woodward acted for Lloyd's etc in 1872, plus Capt Dring (sic). See Welsby, Early Moreton Bay, p. 33, on 5 May, 1856 the ship Phoebe Dunbar went ashore to the east of Amity Point, the Capt mistaking Point Lookout for Cape Moreton. A light house built in area by 1858. Re a partner of Dunbar in Dunbar's London Chartered Bank of Australia, one William Fane de Salis. Copy in Broeze on Brooks p. 332 Note 47 on prices of Dunbar's ships. Broeze on Brooks p. 324 Note 13 has letter re Welsh to A. B. Spark, Nov. 13, 1840 re Welsh buying land on account of Duncan Dunbar. See Broeze on Brooks, pp. 33ff. See Alexander Campbell qv and Mowle's Genealogy, p. 35. below is an email of 23-12-2002 - Dan, I am a relative of Duncan Dunbar I, and therefore obviously DDII. Am a solicitor in Sydney. Is there a chance we could meet? There are a number of aspects to the meeting, some more in your domain, some more in mine. Together, though, they make good sense. The immediate considerations are; The detailed history of the NSW Bar Association currently being rewritten; The 'opening' of the Edwin Fox Society in Picton by the Patron, a Dunbar-Nasmith, later this year; and finally, the furthering of the research in your book, details of which I am very happy to make available to you free of charge. The longer term aims are that no book has been written of DD I, or II, and it may be a proposition- to be discussed. Of the visitors to your site, this and my other addresses must be of the higher ranking. A phenomenal effort for which you have earned my respect and admiration. Kind Regards, Michael Rhodes michael@magney-rhodes.com.au
Rhodes conveys - Dunbar was very private because he operated almost entirely within a family set up. Little escaped to the outside world. He was related to Milligan of the Docks; Shores, Molison and Davidson as Captains; and Forsyth of the Forsyth and Sir John Pirie partnership. In fact he had relations in every important position going. Even his shipbuilding was a family affair in India. Nobody has written a book about it all. Even where one of W C Wentworth's offspring married into the family. The Admiral's brother is Patron of the NZ Edwin Fox Society, the Admiral now deceased.
Duncan Dunbar II.... 1811-His father sent him to Forres Grammar School at the age of 7. He was taught by a Mr. John Taylor, and later by a Mr. Urquhart. After several years he went to a private academy at Boharm run by the minister of the parish Dr. Patrick Forbes who later became Professor of Humanity and Chemistry at Kings College, Aberdeen. 1817- at the age of 13 he became a student at Marischal College, Aberdeen. He preferred to live in Old Aberdeen, and walked to University every day. He had a shared lodging arrangement with an old school friend from Forres. Going to University at this age was accepted and usual for those times.
1819 he went back to London and started work for his father in his counting house, becoming a partner in 1823. The next few years he spent learning the business as a partner with his father, and brother John. He lived initially at Dunbar Wharf, and after the building of Howrah House, he lived with his parents in that house. In fact he lived there until shortly before his mother's death in 1853 when he bought a house in Porchester Terrace, London. Duncan was an incredibly astute businessman. He picked up all the threads of his father's connections with Pirie, Forsyth ( another relative ) and built his main business on the emigrant and convict trade with Australasia, and the gold rushes there. His main 'circuits' of trade were Government based for convicts to Australia, and troops, food and wool to India and the East, and then home, or via South Africa for much the same reasons. He formed very extensive commercial alliances in these endeavours, and only now 150 years later are some of those alliances emerging. While it was well known he was a major contractor to the Government for the supply of troop transports to the Crimea, it was less well known- in fact hidden as much as possible that he had shareholdings in a variety of Australian based enterprises as well. After his father's death, and the ending of the uneasy partnership with his brother John by about 1830, Duncan really gathered momentum. He began to build ships at a number of yards in England, and also to build them at Howrah in Calcutta using Burmese teak, and in shipyards he owned. He favoured the Blackwall frigate design as being dependable, though not as fast as the lightly built clipper ships, but more durable and economic for trading purposes. He rejected steam when it came in as a commercial alternative. He always preferred to hire people with a family connection, and for this reason, the repeated use of Molison, Elmslie, Forsyth, Shores and Masson family members as captains is understandable. He filled the gap between the waning East India Company and the emergence of the great steam ship companies. On a trip to Scotland he asked the Editor of the Forres, Elgin and Nairn Gazette 'How is that great old school house, or hospital erected in Inverness in 1688 by Provost Alexander Dunbar?' As the Ed said--'The rich shipowner claimed kindred descent. The building I never told him has fallen into rather a degenerate state.' This refers to Dunbar's Hospital in Church Street, Inverness. It dates from about 1668 and was built by Alexander Dunbar. Until 1772 the grammar school occupied part of the ground floor. The upper floors were the province of paupers.
List for The New South Wales and Van Diemen’s Land Commercial Association: (supposedly by 1836 a semi-secret group). ([27]) Richard Aspinall, John S. Brownrigg MP of Cockerell and Co, Robert Brooks, John William Buckle, S. Donaldson of Donaldson, Wilkinson and Co., Duncan Dunbar of Duncan Dunbar and Sons, John Gore, Jacob Montefiore, ([28]) William Walker (who had a son-in-law, Donald Lanarch, a director of Bank of New South Wales) of Walker Bros. and Co., Arthur Willis of A. Willis Sons and Co., and Joseph Moore formerly a clerk for Buckles and later a partner of Devitt and Moore. ([29])
Before the discovery of gold in the 1850s Australia's international shipping was dominated by British regulations, and a mainly British fleet. According to Bach 'Australia's overseas trade from 1825 to 1850 was predominantly a British affair, with British shipping meeting the steadily increasing demand for British manufacturers, as well as transporting to Australia a steady stream of both assisted and independent migrants'.[36] This trade was carried out by sailing ships: two masted brigs, three masted schooners, three and four masted barques and square-rigged barquentines. The majority of these vessels were small, varying from 200 to 400 tons, and only increasing to 600 to 800 tons in the late 1840s. Duncan Dunbar, for example, entered the Australian trade in the 1830s with the 530 ton vessel China, which was soon joined by his other barques Duchess of Northumberland (541 tons), Earl Grey (571 tons), and Morayshire (361 tons).[37]
Duncan Dunbar dealt with the 1838 NSW and VDL Commercial Association, along with Richard Aspinall, MP John S. Brownrigg of Cockerell and Co, an AA Co investor, with Robert Brooks, and with J. W. Buckle. It is possible that Dunbar’s ships carried copper from South Australia for the Grenfell banker interests? Grenfells by repute made a great deal of money from copper in the later nineteenth century. DD owned land in South Australia buying section 488 on the 31 Dec 1839 for Pounds 488.
1854 Bought the 'Edwin Fox' at auction from Sir George Hodgkinson. The Crimean Wat was thought to be about to finish and there would a surplus of tonnage on the market. Dunbar had made a fortune from transporting troops and believed more would be needed. He liked particularly the teak hulled ships of this Blackwall design and built by Duncan's long term friend Thomas Reeves in Moulmein, India. The auction was charged with electricity in the form of rivalry. Among the figures there apart from Duncan Dunbar the most famous shipowner of the day, were James Baines of Liverpool 'wire and whipcord Baines', John Willis the canny Scot who went on to own the 'Cutty Sark', and a lot of other notables. The bidding commenced at 15,000 and went up quickly to 25,000. Willis withdrew at 25,000 knowing there was heat in the bidding of a personal nature, and immediately Baines who was decked out very smartly for the day, bid 28,000 and turned and snarled at Dunbar 'Beat that if you can and be damned to you.' Applause broke out and Dunbar shouted back '30,000 and the same to you.' Gasps of astonishment arose, there was silence, and the record price was paid by Dunbar. Dunbar made back the purchase price plus 8,000 profit in the next 18 months of charter for French troops to the Crimea. A very good investment indeed.
When he died he left a fortune of a million and a half pounds. At that time one of the 3 largest fortunes ever left by will in the U.K. Described physically as a large man, English in appearance-like John Bull.' One of the people mentioned in his will was an old friend Dr. James Brands Allan, formerly of Forres, and who himself died in Bournemouth in 1890. He and Duncan were co-Founders of the Forres Mechanics Institute and Library in 1847. He was its first President.
1853 Chartered Bank of India, Australia and China , incorporated in London, opened its branch of Shanghai in 1857. Recorded phonetically under the Chinese name of Yindu Xinjinshan Zhongguo Zhada yinhang (shortened in Zhada yinghang), it is more often indicated under that of Maijiali yinhang of the name of its first person in charge, MacGarry, which in Chinese can be read as the bank of Mr. Mai (Chinese surname authenticates), whose first name "Jiali" means which "increases the profits". (1852 - 1893) The London Chartered Bank of Australia (1893 - 1921) The London Bank of Australia Ltd (1893 - 1970) The English Scottish and Australian Bank Ltd (1970 - to date) Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd
His death rocked the stock market. It is cited to this day as one of the earliest recognisable dips in the market caused by a personal event. No wonder. He left the third largest amount of money for which probate had been granted in English history. He was one of the largest shipowners, but as well was Chairman of London Chartered Bank of Australia, Director of Alliance Marine, Marine Insurance,Imperial Insurance, and a number of other insurance companies, Director of Scottish Australian Investment, Scottish Australian Mining. Deputy Chairman of the East and West India Dock Company, and Lloyds Registry, the Local Marine Board of the Port of London.
Moulmein: Approx 16 degrees north, directly across the Gulf from Rangoon.
"Under the British, between 1827 & 1852, Moulmein was the administrative seat of Burma. It was also famous for its shipyards, which provided ships for the opium trade supplying China from Bengal and Malwa in India. The East India Company too, which in 1833 had lost its trading monopoly, drew its main source of income from contraband. The sailing boats used by the opium dealers were built mainly from teak, and their speed and manoeuvrability made it easy for them to evade the Chinese coast guards. Where the shipyards once stood, there are now (1990's) saw mills and rice processing factories. Moulmein is the capital of the Mon state." Extracted from 'Burma' by Jean-Yves Montagu
"Developments in ferro-concrete and plastics are diminishing the value of timber but Burma has almost a monopoly of the best teak and she exported 21/4M UKPounds annually. A century ago the Admiralty built frigates at Moulmein, and even in recent years teak export was a steady quarter million tons mainly to India but also for the navy and great shipping lines (it was used in the Queen Mary)." Extracted from British Rule in Burma 1824-1942 by G E Harvey, pub.by Faber and Faber, date unknown.
Lived in Howrah House in the East India Dock Rd, and this is presumably where he left his mother when he moved to Porchester Tce.
Roderick Glassford wrote to me in the 1970s;
'I would be interested to know what relationship there was between Dunbar and Thomas Reeves who built her ( the Edwin Fox ) in Calcutta but who maintained a London address the same as Dunbar's-Howrah House' in the East India Dock Rd. Dunbar had a substantial interest in Reeves Dock at Sulkiah- I wouldn't be surprised if he owned most of it. There is little doubt in my mind that Reeves designed the Edwin Fox. The first owner of the ship was Sir George Edmund Hodgkinson who had business connections with Reeves and certainly Dunbar.'
DDII was a promoter of fine art, and had a magnificent collection which he housed in a gallery he had built on to 50 Porchester Terrace. His sister Margaret, the widow of John Masson, lived with him, as did her 2 daughters, one of them Phoebe, the Poet. Described as a 'class above mediocrity', she wrote several books of poems- one of which- 'Sir Ninian a tale of chivalry' was published privately by Duncan in 1860.
We know he played a lot of cribbage, and whist and was good at neither.
16 July 1855- he took his sister and nieces to the launch of the 'La Hogue.'
May 1857 on a 'bright May morn' he took them again this time to witness the launch of the 'Duncan Dunbar.'
8 September 1859- he was in the middle of the rebuilding of Porchester Terrace with a banquet hall being added.
Voted Conservative, and was on several occasions offered a seat in the Commons. He almost accepted the offer of the seat of Sunderland in the House of Commons in 1853, but eventually declined the offer in early 1854. 'The late hours would kill me and it is a terrible waste of time.'
From the 'Burgesses and Community of Forres' In 1862 there died Duncan Dunbar, Limehouse, who carried on a large shipbuilding business. He was chairman of the Chartered Bank of India, a member of the Lloyds Register of Shipping, and at his death had been for some years vice-chairman. One of the original members of the Marine Insurance Company, and its chairman for many years. He was a patron of the Mechanics Institute, Forres, and contributed liberally to its support. His donations to it amounted to over 200 pounds, and he was further an annual contributor. Mr. Dunbar's ancestors resided in or near Forres. His father was also Duncan Dunbar, and was a founder of the firm of D. Dunbar & Sons, merchants and shipowners. He was a first cousin of Mrs. Milligan, wife of Robert Milligan.'
He dropped dead in his fine house at 50 Porchester Terrace, London at age 58. He never married. Ed, at Forres, sent there by his father, from age 7, he spent 2 years at Marischal College, Aberdeen at the age of 13, and then went into the family business at age 15, as a partner at 19, and took over at age 21 when his father died. His brother John was a partner at one stage for a brief time.
The Forres Gazette of 19 March 1862 had this to say;
FUNERAL OF DUNCAN DUNBAR, ESQ.
'The funeral of the late Duncan Dunbar Esq took place on Friday last. In remembrance of the deceased gentleman's expressed dislike of funereal pomp and display, invitations had been confined to the relations and a few of the most attached friends, but still all parties who expressed the wish were permitted to attend. The hearse was followed by 11 mourning coaches, the carriage of the deceased, and several other private carriages. In the first mourning coach were Edward Dunbar-Dunbar, late Capt 21st Fusiliers, as chief mourner, supported by Messrs Brown and Abbott; in the second were other relatives; in the third were James Brands Allan, Esq, MD (the medical adviser and very attached friend of the deceased), the executors and solicitor; and the fourth and fifth mourning coaches were occupied by members of the families of the Dunbars of Mochrum, of Durn, and of Northfield-all wishing to pay the last sad tribute of respect to one whom they so justly considered an honour to the name...
On the day of the funeral much respect was shown to the memory of the deceased. Nearly all of the shipping in the East and West India docks had their colours hoisted half mast high; as also the flags on the pier head entrances to the docks, and the lofty mast house at Blackwall. At Limehouse church the bells were tolled during the time of the interment. On the forenoon of Friday last, the Trafalgar flag was hoisted halfmast high on the tower of Nelsons Monument, Forres. From 12 oclock noon to 2 oclock afternoon, the 'knells' were sounded from the bell in the public buildings. The Mechanics Institute was shut during the entire day, and every becoming demonstration of respect for the departed was otherwise shown...
Buried at Kensal Green Cemetery. The attached note on that cemetery is for assistance for anyone wishing to visit it....Blondin, Decimus Burton, William Casement, Wilkie Collins, Fergus O'Connor, Mulready, Andrew Ducrow, Thomas Hood, Trollope, Thackeray, Marc and Isambard Kingdom Brunel are among its dead luminaries. The architecture is stunning. Also ask to see the grave of Winston Churchill's first daughter who died of neglect. General Cemetery Company, Kensal Green Cemetery, Harrow Road, London W10 4RA tel 0181 969 0152. From March it is open 9-6 daily (10-6 Sunday) and tours are on Saturday and Sunday.Kensal Green is a stop on the Underground. As churchyards in London became overcrowded with bodies in the early 19th century, locations just outside of London were selected to bury the dead. Kensal Green Cemetery was one of the first. It was licensed by an Act of Parliament in 1832 and would soon turn into such a fashionable place to be buried that Augustus Frederick, Duke of Sussex, son of king George III, found his last resting place on the cemetery in 1843. Many other illustrious persons were buried at Kensal Green. As in many other cemeteries, some of the tombs on Kensal Green are really pompous. In most cases the inhabitants are long forgotten, but the tombs remain. A striking example is Mary Eleanor Gibson, who was born in 1854 and died in 1872. She's a complete unknown, but the angels on top of her large tomb are really magnificent and fully justify the moment one pauses to admire them... Friends of Kensal Green Cemetery, c/o The General Cemetery Company, Harrow Road, London, England W10 4RA
Other email - I (M Rhodes) have the full list of Dunbar ships together with the fate of each. We can find from the Masters papers at Guildhall every voyage each of the Masters made, the ship the dates, etc, and from the Australian records work out how many of the contracts taken by the agents were (in favour of each of the various Blackheath men.) My suspicion is, Pirie, Forsyth, Molison and Dunbar were more diversified than that and Australia suited them seasonally or in times of army demand in India and the East. They could get back loads better. I have some records of the Molisons that shows they waited months for cargo in Sydney and India and another time in Hong Kong. Also, another relative Oliverson ( more on the marine insurance side of things this side of the family ) waited more than 3 months in HK for cargo. The voyages of these guys until wool became a constant, was I suspect a seasonal thing for the convict trade dictated by return cargoes. When that wasn't certain, a lot of ships went to India empty from NSW. Thus the importance they placed on getting settlers associations established in SA and VDL and NZ, etc, enabled them to spread risk, maintain constancy, and profit on both the voyage out and the one home. I think wool and opium were the constants, the Indian cloth trade later was as well, but apart from the army switching around, it was wheat, people and then Indian spices and tea. Dunbar certainly had big Army connections when you look at what he did in the Crimea and the Baltic, and India. There are examples of the Molisons being on the India- London via China route for decades carrying troops and picking up cargo when and where they could. There is the testimonial from the Army for the China station service for example. Does this make sense as to why there may not have been a rush for the convict contracts after a short while, or why nobody tried to corner the market? Some of the voyages may have been made at times wholly unsuited to commercial enterprise, and trading the contracts or just giving them a miss may have been the better option. I stress this is just an idea- a suspicion that may be totally wrong. Because the obverse is it would have been very nice indeed to be friends with the agent who held all the contracts, and where an army contract to India looked mediocre, if you could fill in with a contract for a few felons to Port Phillip, the 2 bits of business made for a profit. I have some musket balls dredged from the Thames under Dunbar Wharf. We know how the iron lace in Paddington came out as ballast, but Dunbar used to ship muslin bags of musket balls as ballast. Sell a few at each port in return for more paying cargo. At the present time my father in NZ has one of the musket balls, one is held by Michael Borman my 4th cousin in Portmouth, and the third by me. They are set into a bit of turned teak from the Edwin Fox and with an Australian solid silver band around the base. They were given to us by the owners of Dunbar Wharf at the time- E W Taylor & Co. Nice to have some ballast isn't it - Regards, Michael Rhodes+ 36 F ii Dunbar Margaret-39359 was born on 8 Mar 1805. She died on 23 Dec 1867. + 37 F iii wife1 Dunbar Justina-39360 was born in 1801. She died in 1826. 38 M iv Unm, Partner in Dunbars, Sea Park Dunbar John-104528 died in 1845.
He retires from ship line, is bought out by Duncan, does not marry, goes to Scotland, buys Sea Park, is a farmer/ag improver. He bought Sea Park estate between Forres and Findhorn.39 F v Dunbar Margaret-102209.
No notes.40 F vi Dunbar Elspeth-125273. 41 F vii Dunbar Maria Anne-82627 was born in 1789. She died in 1803. + 42 F viii Of Sea Park Dunbar Phoebe-7738 was born in 1816. She died on 9 May 1899. + 43 F ix Dunbar Helen-499788 was born in 1813.
28. He is of Forres, Co. Elgin Dunbar William-71180 (John , Robert , Robert , Progenitor ) was born in 1721 in Forres. He died in 1790.
parent problem Baillie at Forres. E-mail5 from Nick Hide of 16-6-2010 per www.clandavidson.org.uk/
William married Davidson Jean-99266 daughter of Town Clerk Cromarty Davidson William Davidson-36220 and Bain Jean Bayne-36221. Jean was born in 1730 in Cromarty. She died on 14 Jan 1820.
Update of 15-6-2010 from Nick Hide. E-mail5 from Nick Hide of 16-6-2010 per www.clandavidson.org.uk/
William and Jean had the following children:
30. Dunbar Janet-65605 (John , Robert , Robert , Progenitor ).
Janet married Gillan Mr-65545 son of Gillan Senior-193587 and GNotknown Miss-193588.
They had the following children:
46 F i Gillan Margaret-110310. 47 F ii Gillan Janet-110296.
31. Dunbar Miss-108359 (John , Robert , Robert , Progenitor ).
Miss married Smith Mr-82072 son of Smith Senior-189923 and SNotknown Miss-189924.
They had the following children:
48 F i Smith Margaret-66322. 49 F ii Smith Jean-77962.
32. Dunbar Justina-143613 (William , Robert , Robert , Progenitor ) was born in 1759 in Forres. She died in 1826 in Circa.
See info of June 2010 from Nick Hide.
Justina married Sir Munro George Gunn-75706 son of Captain of Braemore Munro John Gunn-126357 and Sutherland Elizabeth-97964 in 1787. George was born in 1743.
Suggestion in info from Michael Rhodes qv that he or a similar name(s) marreid Georgiana Poyntz an ancestor of Princess Diana Spencer/Windsor qv. His father is of Poyntzfield.
George and Justina had the following children:
+ 50 M i Munro Barclay Justin Gunn-498929. + 51 M ii Colonel Munro Innis-499716 died in 1827.
33. Dunbar Jean-82212 (William , Robert , Robert , Progenitor ) was born in 1757. She died on 14 Jan 1820.
Jean married Milligan Robert-75523 son of Of Dumfries Milligan James-69513 and MNotknown Miss-87014 on 13 Oct 1781 in Kingston. Surrey. Robert was born on 19 Aug 1746. He died in 1809.
Of Kingston when in Jamaica with firm Dick and Milligan in http on Monumental Inscriptions of Jamaica accessed on 20-6-2010. There was a Mrs Caroline Dick wife of John Dick Atty at Law died 1806 aged about 32. In London of "Rosslyn"/Shelford Lodge, near Hampsteadand of Cotswold House Gloucestershire. . His own wikipedia page says he grew up in Jamiaca but what evidence exists for saying this? Notes on Rbt Milligan - Noted in online item on History of Jamaica Chamber of Commerce incompnay with naval agent Hercules Rose, Thomas Gray, Sec of chamber is J. Hardwar, and Hibberts. He early manages his family's Jamaic plantations till 1779 then goes to London, where he is outraged by rate of thefts from the London docks in general. Milligan is dep-chair of West India Docks Co, George HIbbert qv. is chair. A statue is placed to him "a merchant of London" (he returned from Jamaica to London in 1779) at new West India Docks when they are opened. Kent's Directory c 1794 has Milligan and Allan Merchants at 8 Great Winchester Street, and Milligan and Mitchell, Merchants, 17 London-str. Per Michael Rhodes data of Dec 2002. Below is from a http on Miligans - James Milligan of Fairgirth, married Margaret daughter of John Smith of Legsbridge.
Peter Milligan of Kirkbean, married Sarah daughter of Charles Blair, and had sons; Charles and William; and daughters; Marion, Sarah, Mary, Elizabeth, Peggie and Jannet.
John Milligan of Kirkbean, married Mary daughter of Hugh Paterson of Kirkbean, and died 1764, leaving issue:
James, born 30th January, 1739, married 29th November, 1764, Ann daughter of William Lindsay of Corsock, and had issue; Mary.
William, born 29th December, 1741.
Esther, married John Kittrick of Kirkcudbright.
Elizabeth, married George Kirkpatrick of Gelston. David Milligan of the City of London, merchant and second son of David Milligan of Dalbeattie, married 10th September, 1759, Marion daughter of Robert Clarke of Castle Cravie, and died leaving no heir. His property passed to his cousin:- Robert Milligan of Roslyn House, Hampstead, Co. Middlesex, Deputy Chairman of the West India Dock Company, and founder of those docks, where there is a statue to his memory; born at Dumfries, 19th August, 1746, the son of James Milligan of Dumfries; married at Kingston, Surrey, 13th October, 1781, Jean daughter of William Dunbar of Forres, Co. Elgin, by Jean daughter of William Davidson of Tulloch, and by her (who died 14th January, 1820) had issue:
Robert Milligan of Eastridge, Ryde, of the 11th Light Dragoons and 2nd Life Guards, fought at Waterloo; born 28th August, 1787; married 1816, Elizabeth Margaret daughter of Matthew Baillie, M.D.; and died 21st December, 1875, leaving by her (who died 25th June, 1876) an only child:
Sophia, of Rosslyn Lodge, Weybridge, born 4th July, 1817, died unmarried on 17th September, 1893. David Milligan of Jamaica, merchant, born 27th April, 1789, and died in that Island, 16th February, 1818.
Harry Milligan, born 1790, married Georgina Matilda daughter of Sir Walter Stirling, Bart. His widow married Sir Thomas Barrett-Lennard, Bart.
Duncan Milligan, born 1793.
William Milligan, of whom presently.
Jean Milligan, married 1811, Thomas Hugham, M.P., of Airds.
Justina Milligan, nothing more said.
Mary Milligan, nothing more said. Robert Milligan of Roslyn House, died 21st May, 1809, being succeeded by his son:
Robert and Jean had the following children:
+ 52 M i Of Eastridge Ryde, 11th Lt Dragoons Milligan Robert-139312 was born on 28 Aug 1787. He died on 21 Dec 1875. 53 M ii Jamaica merchant Milligan David-154397 was born on 27 Apr 1789. He died on 16 Feb 1818 in Jma.
http on Monumental Inscriptions of Jamaica accessed on 20-6-2010. E-mail5 from Nick Hide of 16-6-2010 per www.clandavidson.org.uk/ He is Jamaica merchant. Family line of M Rhodes.54 M iii Milligan Henry Davidson-150463 was born in 1790/1791. He died in 1817.
E-mail5 from Nick Hide of 16-6-2010 per www.clandavidson.org.uk/ Of North Audley St Grosvenor Sq London. Died at sea near Isle of Wight.Henry married wife2 Stirling Georgina Matilda-160905 daughter of Sir Bart1 of Faskine Stirling Walter-103490 and Goodenough Susanna-71608.
E-mail5 from Nick Hide of 16-6-2010 per www.clandavidson.org.uk/ thepeerrage.com. Info per Michael Rhodes of Dec 2002. Sir Bart1 of Belhus. http from stirnet.com on Lennard.55 M iv West India Merchant Milligan Duncan Davidson-158604 was born in 1793 in London. He died in 1843/1846.
E-mail5 from Nick Hide of 16-6-2010 per www.clandavidson.org.uk/ He had illegit dr named Marie Louise Milligan possibly by Wilhelmina Teich (sic). Friends with David Lyon. He is of firm Milligan Robertson and Co. Of Fenchurch St London bankrupt by 1828. Partner with Colin Robertson and his own cousin Robert Milligan Dalzell.+ 56 M v Lt-Colonel Milligan William-145114 was born in 1799. He died in 1868. 57 F vi Milligan Jean-142821 was born in 1794.
Birth date is from IGI. E-mail5 from Nick Hide of 16-6-2010 per www.clandavidson.org.uk/Jean married MP, of Airds Hughan Thomas-150464 son of Merchant Hughan Alexander-150056 and Gerran Margaret Gerrant-150055 in 1811. Thomas was born about 1760 in Creetown Kirkcudbright. He died in 1811.
E-mail5 from Nick Hide of 16-6-2010 per www.clandavidson.org.uk/ He was resident in Jamaica 1787-1797 and possibly had two natural daughters Jane and Margaret who both died in Edinburgh. Moved to Liverpool after father died with brother Alexander and became slave trader. Of 12 Devonshire Place London. Notes of Dunbar line from M Rhodes. Data on portrait by Henry Bone (1755-1834). There were Hughans in New Zealand.58 F vii Milligan Justina-150306 was born in 1786/1788. She died in 1840 in Leamington Spa.
E-mail5 from Nick Hide of 16-6-2010 per www.clandavidson.org.uk/ Unmarried.59 F viii Milligan Mary-150467. 60 F ix Milligan Margaret-120488 was born in 1787 in ante.
E-mail5 from Nick Hide of 16-6-2010 per www.clandavidson.org.uk/Margaret married Dr Tweedle James-90743 son of Tweedle Progenitor-181030 and TNotknown Miss-181031.
Or, Tweedale. ux49 E-mail5 from Nick Hide of 16-6-2010 per www.clandavidson.org.uk/
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